Bottoming out.

well, I won't exactly call Wang's line a gem, but for a guy is fresh out of rehab. I say that's ok. What I don't understand is the quick hook for Wang, the entire country don't understand that move. the only way to justify this move is Joe didn't want to overtax him. but Wang is on 81 pitches. Leave him there and if he gives up the homer, then so be it. otherwise...

He also doesn't back up his players when they get hit. Jeter is getting killed by the pitchers and I don't see ANYBODY on the opposing team hitting the dirt in retalitaion. The grand slam that Myers gave up was the freaking icing on the cake and topped off a great outing blown by the bullpen...again. Maybe getting back home to the Bronx will reinvigorate the pitching staff, there's only so much the bats can do. (Insert positive comment about keeping head up, etc...here)...Go Yanks.

//He also doesn't back up his players when they get hit. Jeter is getting killed by the pitchers and I don't see ANYBODY on the opposing team hitting the dirt in retalitaion.//

That HBP to Jeter was brutal. Even I flinched. I would LOVE it if some pitcher on this team grew a pair and made someone eat dirt. Or at least be made to feel really uncomfortable at the plate.

I will defend Torre on one count and join the criticism on the other. In Torre's defense, his bullpen management has been decent for the most part, and about what any manager could do in such circumstances of injury and inefficiency. In too many instances this year, he has had two main choices, which involve either using a couple relievers for longer stints to rest as many as possible, or to use more pitchers for shorter stints in the hope that he can parse out the wear-and-tear. Wang got into some trouble in the 7th, and had likely thrown nearly as many pitches as they were willing to allow in his first start back.

But on the other count, and this extends to the team as a whole, I couldn't agree more. When are they going to start sticking up for their own, beaned batters and screwed pitchers? Frank the Sage (a close friend of mine and a great baseball person) and I were both irate during Sunday's loss to Boston that Torre didn't come out of the dugout and blister home-plate ump Sam Holbrook for calling belt-high balls when Vizcaino was pitching, but allowing an exceedingly generous strike zone to Matsuzaka. Show some fire, Joe! This team could sure use it. And though Kazmir probably just wanted to pitch Jeter inside, he plunked him but good, and Jeter will likely miss a game or two. At that early point in the game, at the very least Wang should have buzzed Young, Crawford, Baldelli--someone, if not nailed him outright. Enough of this ***** garbage, already. Start playing with some g****mn fire and stop allowing other teams to take liberties with your best players. WAKE UP!

http://heartlandpinstripes.mlblogs.com/

//But on the other count, and this extends to the team as a whole, I couldn't agree more. When are they going to start sticking up for their own, beaned batters and screwed pitchers? Frank the Sage (a close friend of mine and a great baseball person) and I were both irate during Sunday's loss to Boston that Torre didn't come out of the dugout and blister home-plate ump Sam Holbrook for calling belt-high balls when Vizcaino was pitching, but allowing an exceedingly generous strike zone to Matsuzaka. Show some fire, Joe! This team could sure use it. And though Kazmir probably just wanted to pitch Jeter inside, he plunked him but good, and Jeter will likely miss a game or two. At that early point in the game, at the very least Wang should have buzzed Young, Crawford, Baldelli--someone, if not nailed him outright. Enough of this **** garbage, already. Start playing with some g****mn fire and stop allowing other teams to take liberties with your best players. WAKE UP!//

What you just said has been my biggest problem with Joe for a long, long time. He lets opposing pitchers establish the inside of the plate on our batters, either by hitting or **** near hitting them and when we are hit, we don't retaliate, we don't shove that uncomfortable feeling on THEIR batters. He refuses to let our pitchers retaliate in any way. Jeter/Alex/Jason get hit SO much during the course of the season and no one pays for that. It's utterly infuriating.

Also, other managers will go out onto the field and argue calls they feel are in error or just plain ridiculously stupid. Torre won't get off his ***. I hate that. As much as I didn't want Lou Piniella managing this team, at least he'd show some life in the dugout and not act like a frickin' statue. Someone needs to replace his green tea with Jolt Cola.

It's one of the many things that I greatly respected about the classic, incomparable 1998 Yankees team. They didn't take sh*t from anybody. When Armando Benitez played beanball early in the season, the Yankees flipped out. I'll never forget seeing Darryl Strawberry nearly send that worthless sack of used diapers Benitez into the fifth row of box seats, yet just missed with a punch during the brawl that Benitez incited, instead falling down the Visitors dugout steps.

I don't enjoy brawls at all, but that one sent a strong statement, and just plain fired up that team. It helped to ensure, in addition to the early playoff exit of 1997, that the 1998 team would play with fire in the belly every time out. Say what you want about Darryl Strawberry the person, but Darryl Strawberry the player was a great teammate as a Yankee, no question. Jeter recalled once how Strawberry told him, "Do as I say, not as I do." That's significant, for Strawberry knew full well his personal foibles and limitations, but also knew the kind of person Jeter is and his importance as a player and an image for the franchise, and insisted that even if Strawberry couldn't follow the right paths, that Jeter must.

I'm not saying the Yankees should start a brawl to fire them up, but rather should stand up for themselves when others take liberties, especially on their captain, for goodness sake. Show some nerve and do it now.

I don't want the team brawling for confidence. Sox fans will cite that **** fracas in '04 as the thing that turned their season around, and while they won the WS that year [*sob*], I don't want the team playing that dirty just to get fired up. And that was dirty. Very dirty. ****, at least Carlton Fisk took his mask off in a fight.

I agree that there's a fine line between defending yourself and starting WWIII, and I hope our pitchers figure it out soon. This is getting to be absurd.

No, that wasn't my point. It was rather that the Yankees need to indicate that such cheap actions won't be tolerated. Benitez hit not one but two Yankees in quick succession, then waved to the Yankees to leave the bench.

There are lots of ways to fire up a team, and some chin music when the other team's pitchers continually bean your best players is not just appropriate but demanded. What the Red Sox did was putrid, beaning A-Rod, then Big Clumsy C Varitek incited A-Rod (who rightly claimed they were throwing at him) by saying "We don't try to hit .260 hitters." That's instigation, not retaliation, which I'm advocating, and it can come without such thuggery. That's my point.

I was agreeing with you in that we shouldn't have to instigate a fight to get fired up. My first paragraph was me stating why I feel that way.

I got you. I just didn't want to leave the impression that I feel brawling is a benefit. It was the take-nothing-from-anybody attitude of the 1998 Yankees, among many other things about that team, that I respected.

It's never been Torre's style to have people throw at opposing batters. It might not be a bad thing b/c it happens to our guys way too much.

I wonder what goes through Torre's head sometimes. Why pull Wang when you need a groundball the most?

J

http://www.boogiedownbaseball.mlblogs.com

At this point I say the **** with it, let's fight!!